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 Tier Grievances

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PostSubject: Tier Grievances   Sun 18 Jul 2010, 7:51 pm

Anyone have any thoughts regarding the Smogon tierlist?

Ubers: Still shocked to find Sally here.

OU: No issues here

BL: No issues here

UU: Regirock, Registeel, Mesprit, Uxie, and MAYBE Spiritomb should be moved up to BL.

NU: There are plenty of great Pokemon here that oughta be considered UU, if you ask me.
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PostSubject: Re: Tier Grievances   Mon 19 Jul 2010, 11:24 am

woah woah woah WHAT?! SALLY IS UBER NAO?! HOLY KRAP!!!!

Smogon is awful for everything. Why listen to them? Thats why everyone else here has stopped using them. Regis have waayyyy too high defense/special defense to be UU. If you're up against a registeel with any UU you might MAYBE get down 1/4th of its health before you get thunder waved and EQ'd or Ice Beamed. Mesprit and Uxie deserve to be BL because they both get calm mind, and boltbeam alongside psychic so they hit neutral or super effective on every type. Spiritomb still packs Will O Wisp for anything physical trying to kill it, then it has rest, toxic and shadow sneak to kill anything, sure steels wall it, but there aren't many usable UU steel types
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PostSubject: Re: Tier Grievances   Mon 19 Jul 2010, 6:05 pm

espeon102996 wrote:
woah woah woah WHAT?! SALLY IS UBER NAO?! HOLY KRAP!!!!

Smogon is awful for everything. Why listen to them? Thats why everyone else here has stopped using them. Regis have waayyyy too high defense/special defense to be UU. If you're up against a registeel with any UU you might MAYBE get down 1/4th of its health before you get thunder waved and EQ'd or Ice Beamed. Mesprit and Uxie deserve to be BL because they both get calm mind, and boltbeam alongside psychic so they hit neutral or super effective on every type. Spiritomb still packs Will O Wisp for anything physical trying to kill it, then it has rest, toxic and shadow sneak to kill anything, sure steels wall it, but there aren't many usable UU steel types

Even though there are plenty of things that we don't agree with on Smogon's tier list, you cannot honestly say that they're "awful" or that we shouldn't listen to them. There's a REASON Smogon is considered the standard. They do research, collecting and observing data, in order to make their tier lists. If you think about it, their lists make a LOT of sense. After all, even when it comes to custom tier lists, isn't it true that most people use Smogon's as a basis and then alter it to their preferences? Besides, just the fact that they banned Sally in OU proves that Smogon is not biased to any one tier, because dammit, they loved that Salamence.

Registeel's problem is that it can easily get a guaranteed SR by switching into a lot of Pokemon, and then easily spread paralysis, and eventually Explode, crippling a Pokemon, setting up an entry hazard, and possibly OHKO'ing another.
While Registeel switches in for easy SR on the switch, Mesprit and Uxie are leads that get it off right away because of their bulk and speed. They're both very quick for how durable they are, and can shut down other leads with TrickScarf before setting up Rocks and U-Turning out- Mesprit might even hold onto its Scarf and sweep with Psychic late-game. Mesprit occasionally goes on the offensive with a CM BoltBeam set, but usually, they're Uxie wannabes.
Spiritomb, again, is too bulky. However, Spiritomb's more of an offensive-minded Pokemon that uses its bulk to set up CM easy, similar to Kingdra. Spiritomb can run either physical or special sets effectively, as well as tank. PriorityTomb has become very popular as of late, too, running Sucker Punch, Pursuit, AND Shadow Sneak for a very potent combination.

Personally, I find all three to be too difficult to deal with for a majority of UU. If you're required to run certain Pokemon in your team to take care of one or two particular threats, then they shouldn't belong in the tier.
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PostSubject: Re: Tier Grievances   Mon 26 Jul 2010, 12:43 am

I don't disagree that Smogon doesn't put a lot of effort on the metagame, but marching in the wrong direction doesn't bring you closer to your goal. The only reason there isn't another "standard tier list site" is because everyone submits to the Smogon standard and won't put effort into anything new. So yes, Smogon will remain a standard and continue marching off where ever they feel is "right." The handful of us battlers that, I believe, are better players will continue to see errors in their ways. Nothing will change because trying to stop the giant mindslaving hordes of smogonites is never going to happen. In which case, I'll continue to complain and promote negative images of Smogon as my contribution despite the hopelessness of the situation.

That being said, Salamence is less Uber than Blissey and TTar. I could careless about what Smogon does with OU seeing as it is stale and mindnumbing. These "drastic changes" are piss poor attempts to inject change into the metagame and all it does is ruin it. NU, UU and BL got flushed down the s****er in Smogon's attempts to keep things "interesting" and "competitive" and to some extent it is but at a much larger sacrifice to something that they had already created (being their older tier lists).

As far as current tier lists go, UU has balance in that there are pokemon that fill specific roles expertly but I see the staleness and redundancy that plauges OU in the works. When pokemon like Registeel can guarantee an advantage, you will see it more often and it will become a staple pokemon. Same goes for a handful of others. I think this is a comfort zone tier formation that Smogon likes but it leads to a dull metagame.

Anyways, that's my 2 cents and some extra change. Take it as you will.
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